4👑☸ Cattāri Ariya-saccaṃ 四聖諦

Vedana (Feeling)

Is one of 5uk (clingable aggregates)

SN 22.79 5uk, basic 3 types of feeling, as noun and verb

♦ “kiñ-ca, bhikkhave, vedanaṃ vadetha?	“And-why, monks, [is] feeling called [by that term]?
Vedayatī-ti kho, bhikkhave,	‘It feels,’ *** monks,
tasmā ‘vedanā’ti vuccati.	therefore 'feeling' [is what it is] called.
kiñca vedayati?	And-what (does it) feel?
sukham-pi vedayati,	pleasure-** (it) feels,
dukkham-pi vedayati,	pain-** (it) feels,
a-dukkham-a-sukham-pi vedayati.	neither-pain-nor-pleasure (it) feels.

Is Vedana mental, physical, both?

5 fold scheme, SN 48: 31, 36, 37 differentiate faculty (indriya) in mental and physical

SN 48.37: each vedana has mental and physical portion

“tatra, bhikkhave,	“Therein, monks,
yañca sukh-indriyaṃ yañca so-manass-indriyaṃ,	the pleasure-faculty and-the good-mental-[state]-faculty,
sukhā sā vedanā daṭṭhabbā.	{should be seen as} pleasant ** feeling
tatra, bhikkhave,	“Therein, monks,
yañca dukkh-indriyaṃ yañca do-manass-indriyaṃ,	The pain-faculty and-the bad-mental-[state]-faculty,
dukkhā sā vedanā daṭṭhabbā.	{should be seen as} painful ** feeling.
tatra, bhikkhave,	“Therein, monks,
yadidaṃ upekkh-indriyaṃ,	the equanimity-faculty,
A-dukkham-a-sukhā sā vedanā daṭṭhabbā.	{should be seen as} neither-painful-nor-pleasant ** feeling.

SN 48.37: sukha-indriya is physical, somanassa is mental

“katamañca, bhikkhave, sukh'-indriyaṃ?	“what, ************, (is the) pleasure-faculty?
yaṃ kho, bhikkhave,	Whatever ***, ************,
kāyikaṃ sukhaṃ,	bodily pleasure,
kāyikaṃ sātaṃ,	bodily satisfaction,
kāya-samphassajaṃ sukhaṃ sātaṃ vedayitaṃ —	Bodily-contact-produced pleasurable satisfying feeling –
idaṃ vuccati, bhikkhave, sukh'-indriyaṃ.	that (is) called, *********, pleasure-faculty.

SN 36 Vedanā Saṃyutta has 31 suttas on feelings

Although the 5 fold vedana scheme from SN 48.37 is useful in how it explicitly differentiates mental and physical components, by far the most frequent scheme that appears in SN 36 and probably the EBT in general is the 3 fold scheme. At least 7 suttas in SN 36 explicitly say those 3 feelings originate and depend on the anatomical body, so when it’s unstated, it’s probably safe to assume if its vedana, it’s probably the physical aspect that’s emphasized and not the mental.

SN 36.14 (3-fold vedana explicitly said to arise from anatomical body)

evameva kho, bhikkhave,	just like that, monks,
imasmiṃ kāyasmiṃ vividhā vedanā uppajjanti.	(in) this body, various feelings arise.
sukhāpi vedanā uppajjati,	pleasant feeling arises,
dukkhāpi vedanā uppajjati,	painful feeling arises,
a-dukkham-a-sukhāpi vedanā uppajjati.	neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling arises;

(carnal feelings are tied to 5 cords of sensual pleasure, clearly anatomical body)

sāmisāpi sukhā vedanā uppajjati,	carnal pleasant feeling arises;
sāmisāpi dukkhā vedanā uppajjati,	carnal painful feeling arises;
sāmisāpi a-dukkham-a-sukhā vedanā uppajjati.	carnal neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling arises;

(anatomical body originated spiritual feelings arise in jhāna, see SN 36.31 for explicit tie to jhāna definition)

nirāmisāpi sukhā vedanā uppajjati,	spiritual pleasant feeling arises;
nirāmisāpi dukkhā vedanā uppajjati,	spiritual painful feeling arises;
nirāmisāpi a-dukkham-a-sukhā vedanā uppajjatī”ti.	spiritual neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling arises.

SN 12.2 Vedana as part of 12ps (dependent origination) is mostly physical

♦ “katamā ca, bhikkhave, vedanā?	"And-what, monks, (is) feeling?
chayime, bhikkhave, vedanākāyā —	(there are) six-of-these, **********, feeling-types:
cakkhu-samphassajā vedanā,	eye-contacted feeling,
sota-samphassajā vedanā,	ear-contacted feeling,
ghāna-samphassajā vedanā,	nose-contacted feeling,
jivhās-amphassajā vedanā,	tongue-contacted feeling,
kāya-samphassajā vedanā,	body-contacted feeling,
mano-samphassajā vedanā.	mind-contacted feeling,
ayaṃ vuccati, bhikkhave, vedanā.	This (is) called, *********, feeling.

Sukha Vedana in four Jhānas is physical

The distinction between them is made, as in SN 48.37, with sukha and dukkha being physical, somanassa and domanassa being mental. Here in these examples you see they don’t even need to be qualified as “indriya”. When you see sukha next to somanassa, you know those two together are both vedana, and sukha is physical. When unqualified with “vedana”, sukha on its own by default is physical, anatomical body, as the section surveying SN 36 shows.

MN 13 rūpā, sarīraṃ, kāya of beautiful girl aging, dying

♦ 171. “ko ca, bhikkhave, rūpānaṃ assādo?	"Now what, monks, is the allure of forms?
seyyathāpi, bhikkhave, khattiyakaññā vā brāhmaṇakaññā vā gahapatikaññā vā pannarasavassuddesikā vā soḷasavassuddesikā vā, nātidīghā nātirassā nātikisā nātithūlā nātikāḷī nāccodātā paramā sā, bhikkhave,	Suppose there were a maiden of the noble caste, the brahman caste, or the householder class, fifteen or sixteen years old, neither too tall nor too short, neither too thin nor too plump, neither too dark nor too pale.
tasmiṃ samaye subhā vaṇṇanibhāti?	Is her beauty & charm at that time at its height?"
‘evaṃ, bhante’.	Yes, lord.

sukha is physical, somanassa mental, as in SN 48.37 earlier

yaṃ kho, bhikkhave, subhaṃ vaṇṇanibhaṃ paṭicca uppajjati sukhaṃ somanassaṃ —	"Whatever pleasure & joy arise in dependence on that beauty & charm:
ayaṃ rūpānaṃ assādo.	That is the allure of forms."

STED 4th Jhāna

sukhassa ca pahānā	Pleasure's ** abandoning,
dukkhassa ca pahānā	pain's ** abandoning,
pubbeva somanassa-domanassānaṃ atthaṅgamā	previous elation-(and)-distress disappearance,
A-dukkham-a-sukhaṃ	Neither-pain nor-pleasure
Upekkhā-sati-pārisuddhiṃ	equanimity-(and)-mindfulness-purified,
catutthaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati	fourth Jhāna (he) enters, dwells.

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Notice sukha, dukkha, somanssa, domanassa, adukkham-asukham are all here. All 5 types of vedana. This makes it absolutely clear that: 1. We’re talking about vedana in jhāna, and sukha absolutely is physical, since somanassa would cover the mental. 2. The Buddha is showing by using all of these 5 terms here that he has the vocabulary and he knows how to be specific in distinguishing mental and physical happiness.

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STED 3rd Jhāna

pītiyā ca virāgā	Rapture ** fading,
upekkhako ca viharati	Equanimous ** (he) dwells,
sato ca sampajāno,	mindful and alert,
sukhañca kāyena paṭisaṃvedeti,	pleasure with-the-body (he) experiences,
yaṃ taṃ ariyā ācikkhanti —	that those Noble-Ones declare -
‘upekkhako satimā sukha-vihārī’ti	“equanimous (and) mindful (he has) pleasant-abiding.”
tatiyaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati.	third Jhāna (he) enters, dwells.

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Now backing up to 3rd jhāna, examine how sukha is used. The Buddha could have just used “sukha” unqualified, and knowing that we’re talking about vedana established from 4th jhana, we could safely assume sukha is physical. But just to be absolutely clear, he qualified sukha with “kāyena”, physical body, so there could be no doubt. _{He didn’t count on Abhidhammikas arriving 200 years later with an agenda of changing the four jhanas from being a physical experience into a purely mental phenomena. In order to accomplish this, In book two of Abhidhamma’s Vibhanga, they gloss the 3rd jhana formula and redefine Kāya as “a body of mental aggregates, and redefine sukha as a mental phenomena.}

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If the Buddha wanted sukha to be mental in 3rd jhāna...

We know he has the vocabulary from STED 4th jhāna. He could simply have stated “somanassa patisamvedeti” (mental happiness he experiences). Or “sukha manassa” (pleasure that is mental). The Buddha has an excellent track record in being specific and clear. It would be completely absurd to think he would treat sukha in a sloppy way here and not clearly distinguish between physical and mental.

Pounding in the final nail on the coffin of the Jhāna controversy

This was already in the previous section, but repeated here so you don’t have to skip around the file.

SN 36.14 (3-fold vedana explicitly said to arise from anatomical body)

evameva kho, bhikkhave,	just like that, monks,
imasmiṃ kāyasmiṃ vividhā vedanā uppajjanti.	(in) this body, various feelings arise.
sukhāpi vedanā uppajjati,	pleasant feeling arises,
dukkhāpi vedanā uppajjati,	painful feeling arises,
a-dukkham-a-sukhāpi vedanā uppajjati.	neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling arises;

(carnal feelings are tied to 5 cords of sensual pleasure, clearly anatomical body)

sāmisāpi sukhā vedanā uppajjati,	carnal pleasant feeling arises;
sāmisāpi dukkhā vedanā uppajjati,	carnal painful feeling arises;
sāmisāpi a-dukkham-a-sukhā vedanā uppajjati.	carnal neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling arises;

(anatomical body originated spiritual feelings arise in jhāna, see SN 36.31 for explicit tie to jhāna definition)

nirāmisāpi sukhā vedanā uppajjati,	spiritual pleasant feeling arises;
nirāmisāpi dukkhā vedanā uppajjati,	spiritual painful feeling arises;
nirāmisāpi a-dukkham-a-sukhā vedanā uppajjatī”ti.	spiritual neither-painful-nor-pleasant feeling arises.

SN 48.40 is suggested as evidence that body is shut off in jhāna

This sutta is absoutely not authentic EBT. At least two parallels have completely different mappings of which factors cease in which jhāna. A paper on an academic journal did a comparative study on this sutta to show that. Name of that artiicle and author coming soon… There are several problems with the logic in this sutta, but showing one major flaw is enough to disqualify it as authentic word of the Buddha because of the ridiculous contradiction.

kattha cuppannaṃ sukh-indriyaṃ aparisesaṃ nirujjhati?	“And where does the arisen pleasure faculty cease without remainder?
... (STED 3rd jhana formula)...sukhañca kāyena paṭisaṃvedeti ...	... (STED 3rd jhana formula)..’ pleasure with-the-body (he) experiences, …
ettha cuppannaṃ sukhindriyaṃ aparisesaṃ nirujjhati.	And it is here that the arisen pleasure faculty ceases without remainder.220

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The sukha indriya is supposed to cease in third jhana, but there’s the word “sukhanca kayena” in the forrmula. If you’re trying to commit a murder on “sukha”, you have to actually get rid of the body and hide it so people don’t see it there, still alive and well in the third jhāna formula.

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Survey of SN 36 Vedana, showing by default it is physical

Let's get physical (with Vedana)

"Physical" in this article will refer to an experience felt through the anatomical flesh and blood body. Thesis: Vedana in the EBT, when unqualified, is emphasizing the physical aspect. There are several numbered classification schemes for Vedana (khandha). By far the most common is the 3-fold (sukha, dukkha, a-dukkham-a-sukham). The 5-fold is most precise, it adds somanassa and domanassa (mental happiness and mental unhappiness) to clearly differentiate the 3 physical from the 2 mental feelings. There are several more classification schemes, but analyzing these two is sufficient to arrive at an interesting conclusion. I had always thought that when talking about the 3 feelings (vedana), the Buddha was primarily emphasizing the mental aspect of feeling, that the physical part was a less important effect, and that mind being "the forerunner (Dhammapada first 2 verses)" was the cause and the important aspect of vedana to focus on. The English translation "feeling" also has connotations of emotional (mental) things, so that probably colored my perception of Vedana. Then I examined the EBT more closely to see exactly if physical or mental was the emphasis, and what to assume as a "default". Meaning, if you see dukkha, sukha, would you assume by default that they are physical, or mental, or has both? I discovered to my surprise it's clearly physical that is emphasized in Vedana Khandha, which leads me to conclude that the Buddha is taking the physical as the default assumption for 3-fold vedana. I base this conclusion on carefully reading through all 31 suttas in SN 36 Vedana Samyutta, assuming this should give an accurate representation of how Vedana is treated in the entire EBT. If there are EBT suttas outside of SN 36 that point to a different conclusion, I'd be happy to have them pointed out to me. In total, there are 7 suttas out of 31 where vedana is explicitly said to originate from the body. 2 more sutta state the vedana has phassa (contact) as its origination. Now, from 12ps (dependent origination) we know contact is not happening unless the internal sense bases are present. For bodily contact, body is a necessary condition for contact to happen, so to originate in contact, it must also originate in body. So 9 out of 31 suttas make an explicit connection of vedana originating in the physical. The other suttas don't explicitly specify whether the feeling is physical or mental, or both (except the 2 and 5-fold suttas). Sutta SN 36.5 in particular is the clincher. First, it shares the same passage of SN 47.2 in the 4sp Samyutta. It's defining S&S (sati and sampajano). When those two words are together, sati is referring to 4sp (4 mindful establishments), and sampajano is referring to clear comprehension in whatever activities one is doing (walking, talking, eating, etc). The phrase S&S appears 4 times in right mindfulness, once for each satipatthana. S&S appears explicitly in the 3rd jhāna, so by deduction it must be accessible in 1st and 2nd jhāna. Back to sutta SN 36.5, this is what's going on when a meditator is practicing S&S: “Bhikkhus, while a bhikkhu dwells thus, mindful and clearly comprehending, diligent, ardent, and resolute, if there arises in him a pleasant feeling, he understands thus: ‘There has arisen in me a pleasant feeling. Now that is dependent, not independent. Dependent on what? Dependent on this very body. But this body is impermanent, conditioned, dependently arisen. (kiṃ paṭicca? imameva kāyaṃ paṭicca.) So there's the word kāya (body), explicitly stated as the prerequisite and origin of the 3 type of feelings, and it's happening while one is in first, second, third jhāna, and any time one is doing samma sati, AKA 4sp (4 satipatthana). Vedana by default is bodily in origin, so in the 4 jhānas, this is completely coherent when we see both body (kāya) and vedana is physical. When abhidhamma redefines kāya as "body of mental things", then if vedana is physical and it's originating from a body of mental things, that's pretty absurd, illogical. And with the four jhānas being rupa, not arupa, the EBT text are very straightfoward and clear it's the anatomical body that one experiences when "body" is referred to in the jhāna formulas. So in the cases of other EBT passsages when you come across a 3-fold scheme, the safest would be assume vedana has both a physical and mental component. But based on reading SN 36, it seems safe to also assume the emphasis is on physical as the default, with mental "darts" which follow the first being seen as a secondary side effect and not the main focus. suttas using 3 fold vedana scheme where anatomical body is the cause of vedana sutta #4, 6, 7, 12, 13 SN 36.4 Pātāla: Bottomless Abyss: painful feeling specified as bodily (sārīrikāya dukkhāya vedanāya) SN 36.6 Salla: Dart: Ordinary person experiences a dukkha vedana as a painful physical feeling, followed by a mental painful feeling (so dve vedanā vedayati — kāyikañca, cetasikañca.). Ariya-savako only gets struck by the first dart (physical) SN 36.7 Gelañña 1: Sick-ward 1: sati & sampajāno defined exactly same as SN 47.2. Then, it walks through 3 types of feeling each dependent on anatomical body (imameva kāyaṃ paṭicca). Finally, the investigation of vedana takes you all the way to Nirvana, while in satipatthana, with lamp simile. SN 36.8 Gelañña 2: Sick-ward 2: same as previous sutta, except instead of body (kāya), substitute in contact (phassaṃ paṭicca). SN 36.10 Phassa-mūlaka: Contact-as-root: 3 types of feelings all rooted and originated from contact (phassa). simile of 2 fire sticks not touching. SN 36.12 Ākāsa 1: Sky 1: 3 types of feelings compared to various kinds of wind blowing to sky, vedana connect to body ( kāyasmiṃ vividhā vedanā uppajjanti), and again vedana expressed as bodily in verse (“tathevimasmiṃ kāyasmiṃ) SN 36.13 Ākāsa 2: Sky 2: same as Sky 1 sutta, without verse. SN 36.14 Agāra: guest-house: 9 fold vedana scheme (like SN 36.31 and MN 10 vedana-anupassana), originating from body (kāyasmiṃ vividhā vedanā uppajjanti) SN 36.21 Moḷiyasīvaka: (name of wanderer): Some outsiders held wrong view that all diseases are due to Kamma. Buddha explains kamma is just one of eight possible causes. Bile, phlegm, and also wind, Imbalance and climate too, Carelessness and assault, With kamma result as the eighth. (7 out of 8 are bodily ailments) vedana scheme not three fold sutta #14: 9 fold scheme, but it's based on 3 basic ones, and then multiplied by 3 to get 9. One set of 3 is the sukha of jhāna, which is bodily sutta #21: 8 types of causes of vedana, last one is kamma, the first 7 have to do with bodily illness. sutta #8, 10 connnect them with "contact" (phassa). remaining 5 suttas in vagga don't qualify whether vedana is physical or mental. The 2-fold vedana scheme differentiates between physical and mental. See "4nt→ SN→ SN 36" for short description summarizing all 31 suttas in that Samyutta.

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